Posts by Deputy Dog

251

Is Jesus Christ and Michael the ArchAngel one and the same person?

by booker-t in

i must admit that as a jw i never really swallowed this belief maybe because i was so young when i was really a staunch jw.

i would have born-again christians tell me that it was impossible for jesus and michael to be the same person and that jw's invented this doctrine.

fast forward to 2004 while i was reading a book on jesus i noticed that some of the early church fathers thought michael was jesus christ i almost fell out of my chair.

Deputy Dog

LT

Was the unity of the deity of godhead ever broken?

Yes, when the Father forsook the Son.

If so, was God ever less than triune?

No, The Son did not cease to exist, nor was he annihilated as the jw's suggest. If we have a problem with this, we probably have a pagan ideal of death, not the Hebrew ideal of separation (death).

This comes back to the doctrine of the Tri-part man, as an explanation of how Christ could be foresaken and yet still remain in union.

I don't know about that. I don't know how we have relationships with the various parts of ourselves. We may have three parts, but, not three persons. (although after thinking about this, I catch myself talking to myself.)

It also helps us attempt to answer the question "can God die?".

Maybe the better question is "How can God die? not "if God can die".

D Dog

251

Is Jesus Christ and Michael the ArchAngel one and the same person?

by booker-t in

i must admit that as a jw i never really swallowed this belief maybe because i was so young when i was really a staunch jw.

i would have born-again christians tell me that it was impossible for jesus and michael to be the same person and that jw's invented this doctrine.

fast forward to 2004 while i was reading a book on jesus i noticed that some of the early church fathers thought michael was jesus christ i almost fell out of my chair.

Deputy Dog

LT and EW

I don't know which one of you guys are right (or wrong), but LT you still have the same problem when the Father forsakes the Son on the cross

D Dog

251

Is Jesus Christ and Michael the ArchAngel one and the same person?

by booker-t in

i must admit that as a jw i never really swallowed this belief maybe because i was so young when i was really a staunch jw.

i would have born-again christians tell me that it was impossible for jesus and michael to be the same person and that jw's invented this doctrine.

fast forward to 2004 while i was reading a book on jesus i noticed that some of the early church fathers thought michael was jesus christ i almost fell out of my chair.

Deputy Dog

Midget

The belief of Jesus as Redeemer isn't affected at all by his being Michael or not.

If Jesus is Michael then he does not have the authority to forgive sins D Dog

65

The doctrine of the Tri-Part man.

by LittleToe in

recently there have been discussions about the immortal soul, v's the wts beliefs, so i thought i'd present a little heard of (in jw circles) doctrine of the soul that seeks to explain some passages of scripture that are usually avoided.. first of all, leo posted some fascination information, which gives some background on the bible's general teaching on the soul:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/80742/1319806/post.ashx#1319806.

the doctrine itself surrounds two texts in particular, which i quote from the nwt:.

Deputy Dog

LT

When Adam sinned his spirit [died/was broken] and so he became mere flesh, an intelligent animal.
He is [reborn / resurrected / reconnected to the divine] when the spirit enters in.
At this point a battle ensues between flesh and spirit, and the spirit can be "quenched".

When you say "the spirit enters in" who's spirit are we speaking of?

I have found this "doctrine" to be confusing, can you show how this teaching works with this verse?

Rom 8:16

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

D Dog

251

Is Jesus Christ and Michael the ArchAngel one and the same person?

by booker-t in

i must admit that as a jw i never really swallowed this belief maybe because i was so young when i was really a staunch jw.

i would have born-again christians tell me that it was impossible for jesus and michael to be the same person and that jw's invented this doctrine.

fast forward to 2004 while i was reading a book on jesus i noticed that some of the early church fathers thought michael was jesus christ i almost fell out of my chair.

Deputy Dog

LT

Something that crossed my mind whilst reading it is that if "Jesus" is the name above every other name, then why would he take the name "Michael" in Revelation, to do business?

I'll PM you with the rest of that article.

By the way, at the start of the thread, booker-T said:

To my surprise Martin Luther thought Jesus and Michael were the same person, Ireanous of the 2nd century thought that Jesus was Michael, Justin Martyer thought that Jesus was an "angel".

I can't find anything close to Martin Luther stating any such thing. Do you or anyone else know what he was talking about? The only thing I can think of, is the debate about who the angle of the Lord is in the Old Testament.

D Dog

251

Is Jesus Christ and Michael the ArchAngel one and the same person?

by booker-t in

i must admit that as a jw i never really swallowed this belief maybe because i was so young when i was really a staunch jw.

i would have born-again christians tell me that it was impossible for jesus and michael to be the same person and that jw's invented this doctrine.

fast forward to 2004 while i was reading a book on jesus i noticed that some of the early church fathers thought michael was jesus christ i almost fell out of my chair.

Deputy Dog

ellderwho

Another flip flop

The November 1879 Watch Tower says:

Jesus, means Saviour, and we are carried for-
ward from the mere word to the exalted official nosition, on
account of which he can ?save to the uttermost ail who come
unto God bv him.? His Do&ion is contrasted with that of
men and a&els, as he is? Lord of both, having ?all power
in heaven and earth.? Hence it is said, ?Let all the angels
of God worship him?; [that must include Michael, the
chief angel, hence Michael is not the Son of God] and the
reason is, because he has ?hy inheritance obtained a more
excellent Xame than they.? Michael or Gabriel are perhaps
grander names than Jesus. though Jesus is arand in its
yery simplicity, but the o&iaZ character of the Son of God
as Saviour and King is the inheritance from his Father,
which is far superior to theirs, for it pleased the Father
that in him aZZ fulbess should dwell. He has given him a
name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus
every knee should bow both in heaven and earth. And there
is ?none other name under heaven given among men whereby
we must be saved.?

D Dog

20

When have we ever made God happy?

by Preston in

i got a call the other day from a friend of mine who's a devout christian, and he told me that even though he thought highly of me, he asked how could i (a reference to the marriage to my husband) bring so much anger and pain in god's heart.... it was a pointed question, and at any other time i wouldn't of answered his question in a way that would of resulted in a theological lesson.

but i responded almost immediately: .

"we must do a pretty good job bringing god so much unhappiness, anger, and upset.

Deputy Dog

frankie

Well I guess God has genereously given you the gift, but to thoseof us with out faith God is just being stingy, and so according to you logic,, if we do not have faith not our fault, because God has not given it to us.

I never said anything about "fault". Who is the "us" you are speaking of, who else are you speaking for?

D Dog

20

When have we ever made God happy?

by Preston in

i got a call the other day from a friend of mine who's a devout christian, and he told me that even though he thought highly of me, he asked how could i (a reference to the marriage to my husband) bring so much anger and pain in god's heart.... it was a pointed question, and at any other time i wouldn't of answered his question in a way that would of resulted in a theological lesson.

but i responded almost immediately: .

"we must do a pretty good job bringing god so much unhappiness, anger, and upset.

Deputy Dog

When God gives the gift of faith.

Heb 11:6

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Man can't make faith himself, it is a gift.

D Dog

64

James 4:5 -- A Quote From a Lost Apocryphal Scripture

by Leolaia in

in defense of its fundamentalist approach to the bible and especially its belief that the bible is the word of god and inerrent, the wts frequently quotes from 2 timothy 3:16: "all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness".

we must've heard this scripture thousands of times as witnesses.

the words from eldad and modad quoted in hermas, vis.

Deputy Dog

Leolaia

The 66-book Bible as a compilation only dates back to the Reformation. The Bible used for centuries by the Catholic Church has 73 books, including the deuterocanonicals customarily called the Apocrypha (which includes such books as 1, 2 Maccabees, Sirach, Judith, Tobit, Wisdom, etc.).

The deuterocanonicals were not included (or approved) in the canon until 1546 at the council of Trent. Nor did Jerome and other church fathers believe they were authoritative.

What about the council of Nicea in 325? They approved only the 66.

D Dog

774

Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped in

come to the wedding.

' for i say to you that god is able to raise up children to abraham from these stones.

Deputy Dog

Nark

Mat 5:20

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Nock yourself out!

D Dog